The 16:1 box will be too fast and require too much effort in a nose heavy B body car. 25 -----14.4 BMW 2002 and other '02 BMW 2002ti and BMW 1600ti Owners Group BMW 2002 Turbo BMW Neue Klasse Discussion BMW 1600GT Discussion BMW 700 Discussion BMW 2002 and Neue Klasse Events Project Blogs Project Blogs - Archive This was accomplished by installing the 16:1 ratio steering box in the car. bend a wire indicator to something stationary and bend it to 0 degrees. is a full size). As stated this is a BOLT-IN SWAP. It was a variable ratio box with 2.3 turns lock to lock. I looked at several websites on steering boxes but didn't see anything on how to determine a quick ratio box from non quick. When building from the ground up, several factors, such as the length of the pitman's arm and the length of the steering arm, affect the final steering ratio . Looks like the exact same Ford box on the outside, so for me that was good because it appeared factory original (which is what I wanted). Lock to lock, the factory CJ box is 4.1 turns, the Hummer box is 3.4. If the car had Power Steering, it already had the quick ratio box which received the normal power steering ID tag code. This is often spec'd out in torsion bar size. Steering Ratio: 14:1 (3.5 Turns Lock-to-Lock). The part number 355 posted above is what will be shown on later 124/201 steering boxes, but that's the number for the case. $468.00. Hi, I just got a powersteering box out of a 1980 T/A, at least thats what the guy who sold it to me said it was, the ink stamp is gone, and the casting numbers are all generic, so I used a degree wheel, to determine the ratio, and it seems to be 12.7, I used the method outlined on David's. Borgeson 800130 - Muscle Car Series 12.7:1 Ratio Power Steering Box for Camaro. Loosen, but do not remove, the nuts on all of the attaching ball joints. If the car had Power Steering, it already had the quick ratio box which received the normal power steering ID tag code. This is easy to measure from the outside of the gearbox. Getting the box out and back in is what takes the time. STEERING BOX RATIO INFORMATION This info is from magazine articles & GM brochures. I pulled it out to make the adjustments to tighten it up. However, we prefer to calculate it in In/lbs. If there is a flat spot on the shaft and some of the splines are missing, count halfway around where there are splines and double that number. Power Steering Box; New; Delphi 800/Saginaw Series; Uses 0.75 in 30 Spline Input Shaft; . For example, BMW works with active steering. That would be. Steering Box. Suspension and Steering News . Just by "eye balling" the movement of the sector shaft, it appears that it moves about 25 degrees for every lock-to-lock movement of my steering shaft (the box is 4 turns from lock to lock). As soon as it's at the. Part No. Calculate rack and pinion: important definitions. Standard manual steering ratio was 26:1, almost 6 turns lock-to-lock. Let's say it's 4 complete turns, stop to stop. On-center feel was good but required more driver attention. I had 16* so it came out to 360* / 16* = 22.5 so 22:1 steering roughly. Hop Shock (if equipped) Bumpstops. The steering valve is what gives you the feel of the road. Borgeson Mopar 800127 technical information. Standard manual steering ratio was 26:1, almost 6 turns lock-to-lock. rotate the steering coupler a perfect revolution or 2 or even 3 if. Borgeson Steering Gear Box for 1975-1986 Chevrolet C10 - Related Components vp. I prefer the long pitman but with your box either one should work OK. David S seeburg220 Registered Joined Jul 4, 2008 351 Posts Manual gearboxes can be adapted to a quicker 20.0:1 ratio with the purchase of an aftermarket worm gear . If you do not regularly check the service of the steering box, a grinding noise can creep up. Steering ratio Solve Add to Solver Description The steering ratio is the relationship between how far you turn a steering wheel and how far the actual wheels turn as a result. Greg needed to create a slot in the steering column to match the clamp style attachment of . car and go all the way left (or right). steering wheel movement to be 180 degrees the steering ratio can be calculated as S.R =180/25 =7.2 V. RACK TRAVEL Once the steering ratio has been calculated the rack travel needs to be decided. The steering adapts to the speed of the vehicle and reacts more indirectly at higher speeds. . A 5/8-inch socket is used to mount the steering box. Count the teeth on the pair of meshing gears. These boxes are also higher effort and provide good road "feel". Standard manual steering gear for AMX 5 turns lock to lock (20:1 ratio). If not, what is it? There was no difference between the steering boxes on a PS or manual 62-67 Nova. Wheels. Local Time: 6:40 PM. This is what the pinion sees and is simply tangential force * arm (radius pinion) [in Nm]. Here is the way to find out your steering box ratio. To measure steering box ratio on a non-variable ratio box: A steering box has 85 degrees in 3 turns of the input shaft, divide the 85 by 3, which equals 28.3 degrees per turn. The difference in travel can make you think that your have a faster ratio than you actually have. Because the differences between a conventional 16:1 power steering box and a quick-ratio unit all are internal, it may be difficult to determine if a used box is, in fact, a quick-ratio unit. $570.59. The output shaft is connected to the steering rack. 36 Spline Input;14:1 Quick Ratio. This was accomplished by installing the 16:1 ratio steering box in the car. Lee Power Steering 16:1 variable (13:1 ratio at corners) box with 35-in-lb pressure valve: Overall, it was surprisingly similar to the . Some of the exceptions were the 1969 Camaro and some full size Pontiacs that had the popular 16/13:1 variable ratio power gearbox. Remove all of these using needle nose pliers and side cutters where needed. My research indicates the ratio of the box should be 16:1 and I'd like to confirm that, but I don't have a degree wheel. Gear Box Identification Guide To properly identify a power steering gear box, use the following identification guide: Casting number (see catalog) Number of mounting holes Input shaft diameter (measure across the splines) Type of hydraulic port seats (flare or o-ring) Pitman shaft spline count Rotation of unit (standard . Events Racing FAQ Use; More . Input Shaft: 11/16"(17MM)-36 Spline. Frame Brace (between front bed mounts) When I pull a full ZQ8 setup I rip the bed off because it's either that or the gas tank to get the frame brace out and it also gives me easier access to the rear suspension. A.K.A. If you get a 76-78 Z28 box (probably same for . Sitting on the bench I can turn the shaft that the steering column connects to almost 3 turns lock to lock. Once you know what they fit then the service manuals will tell you additions information like ratio etc. Research shows the H1 box is also 4 bolt with the 76 cast mark. 360 degrees divided by 28.3 = 12.7208, which means you have the 12.7 to 1 ratio box. Casting numbers from the box won't help you a bit. The only thing you have to be careful with is getting the steering column clocked back in the right place on the box input shaft. There's a ratio of 54 to 18 or 3 to 1 this means that pinion is turning . However, the best way to find out is to carry out a test procedure. Plus, there is no feel to the steering because it is so heavily assisted. We need to know how many teeth are in a . The question of "why" is based on the fact that I've had sports sedans and sports cars in the past. Really easy. In this case F 2T = 2 * T 2B / d. Use the number of turns to verify ratio. The true steering ratio, as experienced by the driver, would be the dynamic ratio i dyn, this comprises the proportions resulting from steering H and the elastic H,e (Fig. CARDONE Remanufactured Steering Gear Boxes are re-engineered, built and tested to match O.E. Third, a bad, damaged, or failing gearbox is generally the result of a lack of proper lubrication, reducing smooth movement, and a lack of repairs or service. But I have a manual trans so I often need to shift at same time I'm steering. The Hummer H1 has a 16/13:1 variable ratio gearing. Forums. DEGREES -----RATIO. performance. Is that the F41 box? The steering box on a car has an input and output shafts on either end. Easy if you make a few marks before taking it apart. The smatter the pinion, the higher the steering ratio. I recommend firm feel if you want to use the original box. 2. It is also a variable ratio box, which means that the further you turn the wheel, the faster the tires turn. Part of this package was a quicker ratio steering box to reduce steering wheel movement when turning. 0 to 5, 0 to 10, 0 to 15, etc.) " BIG " by wife, biatch in garage. Check the label for the code NV7. If you measure the end cap, the 800 is roughly 3" and the 808 is just under 3.5". This is the force [in N] needed to deliver the linear movement profile. This ratio can be expressed as the number of gear teeth divided by the number of pinion teeth. A 15/16-inch socket is used on the Pitman arm nut. In this short video, we will be understanding the concept called Steering ratio. I have a 20:1 in my car and it's nice when you're off idle and rolling above 5 mph, little input is required to get desired results. Both feature a nut in the center of the cover, which holds the Pitman splined output shaft in place. The ratio of your power steering gearbox will determine how quickly your vehicle reacts to your steering input. Four bolts retain the 800-type cover, while the 605-type unit has a snap ring holding an inset Pitman cover. This new Borgeson steering box uses a 3/4-inch by 30 spline input shaft, and all pre-1977 cars will require a new rag joint connector (#990012). Maximum Pressure: 1450 PSI Maximum Operating Pressure, 1100 . Camaro 64 degree travel divided by 360 time 17:1 ratio = 3.02 turns. Failing Gearbox. i took an aluminum plate and taped a piece of paper with degree marks on it. The Borgeson Saginaw/Delphi 700 Series steering box, which can be ordered from Borgeson ( p/n 800205) or JEGS ( p/n 153-800205 ), is a variable ratio remanufactured steering box that shares the same dimensions as the original steering box. This is what I have on my 67 Barracuda. The steering box includes adapters, so you can use either O-ring or flare-style hose connections. I called rare parts and they haven't heard of this problem before. It is worn out, but I have a . Be the first to review "1932-34 Ford 15:1 ratio steering sector shaft" Cancel reply. July 2007. Repeat for as many pairs of gears as may be involved in the gear train. The new one just spins around the steering box output shaft. 3.99) portion.To calculate the group of curves a given steering angle range H must be assumed on, both wheels (e.g. Free shipping Free shipping Free shipping. Free shipping Free shipping . I had a 16:1 box in my Coronet for a little while. [1] Method 1 Finding the Gear Ratio of a Gear Train Two Gears 1 Start with a two-gear train. This is the box ratio not the overall ratio listed on the option sheet. The easiest way to tell an 800-type gearbox from a 605-type box is by the type of Pitman cover on the shaft. The quicker the ratio the harder to turn. To make it clear we give you some important definitions: Tangential force or feed force. Start with a two-gear train. Discussions . However, there is a limit to how small the pinion can be made. To measure steering box ratio on a non-variable ratio box: A steering box has 85 degrees in 3 turns of the input shaft, divide the 85 by 3, which equals 28.3 degrees per turn. Fits 1980-1988 Chevrolet El Camino, 1980-1988 Chevrolet Monte Carlo, 1980-1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass, 1982-1986 Pontiac Bonneville, 1980-1987 Pontiac . Lock to lock is less with linkage attached, but a box a bit below 3 turns sounds like a variable ratio box, probably 2.5 turns when links are connected depending on outer steering arm length and pitman arm length. Though the outside dimensions are identical and it uses a similar box as the the original, it's what is . Give your classic car a modern feel without losing the stock appearance. This technique also works for sprockets as well as pitch-diameter ratios between belt pulleys. Other than 3 or 4 turns, is there some other way to determine the steering box ratio? Sixity Auto Direct stands for value, selection, and quality. Leave the idler arm, steering box, and Pitman arm tightly bolted in place for now. ONLINE TOOL: Calculate Steering Lock using Wheel Rotation and Predefined Ratios or specify your own Ratio/Rotation - calculatrise - calculadora Javascript MUST be enabled STEERING LOCK RATIO CALCULATOR v1.6 Input shaft seals are actually very easy to replace. Live. Leave the idler arm, steering box, and Pitman arm tightly bolted in place for now. Quick ratio manual was 4 turns lock to lock (16:1 ratio). If it was 3 turns, you'd have 12:1. b. FORD & MOPAR applications from about '62 to about 1976 as long as the box mounts inside the frame rails & NOT OUTSIDE. The steering box houses the gear train which determines the steering ratio. 11/05/2009 1:18 AM. We can express this basic concept with the formula Gear ratio = T2/T1, where T1 is the number of teeth on the first gear and T2 is the number of teeth on the second. Loosen, but do not remove, the nuts on all of the attaching ball joints. I have a steering box that I think is a quick ratio box. Redhead in Seattle has direct bolt-in Ford quick-ratio steering boxes that'll drop it to 15-1 at around 3.5 turns lock-to-lock. Quick ratio steering box, 3 - 3.5 turns lock to lock ; Standard ratio steering box, 4 - 4.25 turns lock to lock ; Pitman Shaft: 1-1/4" GM with 32 Splines and 4 Master Splines ; Input shaft 3/4"-30 spline ; Pressure port on gear box is 11/16"-18 flare ; BMW 2002 and other '02 BMW 2002ti and BMW 1600ti Owners Group BMW 2002 Turbo BMW Neue Klasse Discussion BMW 1600GT Discussion BMW 700 Discussion BMW 2002 and Neue Klasse Events Project Blogs Project Blogs - Archive In a rack-and-pinion steering system, the steering ratio is determined largely by the diameter of the pinion gear. Borgeson if that's not important to you. Hey all, My 68 Elky has a manual steering box which i am in the process of switching it over to power and am wanting a quick ratio box that's 3 turns or a little less. Chevelle 87 degree travel divided by 360 times 12.7 ratio = 3.06 turns. This includes some JEEP. Pressure Port: 16mm X 1.5 Flare (Located Closest to Engine). The steering gear box is the heart of the vehicle's steering system. The 16:1 box will be too fast and require too much effort in a nose heavy B body car. here is how i checked the ratios. Forums. Events Racing FAQ Use; More . Steering ratio is also determined somewhat by the effective length and shape of the teeth on the sector gear. To go around a clover leaf I've never had to turn the wheel more than an 1/8th turn or so. Springs. Fast ration 16:1 was an option from 65-69, but it's very rare, and I particularly doubt it was supplied on big block cars, as it would make the steering effort enormous. On the input shaft side of the steering box the steering wheel is attached. Torque. OPT FOR PREMIUM STEERING AND GEAR COMPONENTS: Steering and Gear Components need to be as finely tuned as the vehicle they support. H1 has a larger piston for less effort with a faster turning ratio (variable 13 to 16-1 vs 17-1), with 13/16" input splines and metric fittings as original on Scrambler. almost identical to the OEM Jeep box at 17:1. On the input shaft side of the steering box the steering wheel is attached. The Park Avenue takes about a 1/3 of a turn. Remove the old components. Mathematically, steering ratio = (angle turned by steering wheel)/ (angle turn in steered tyres) For example, if the steering wheel is turned 20 and the front tyres only turn 1, that gives a steering ratio of 20:1. The 3-hole is the same pattern, just missing one hole and will fit directly into any vehicle that had a 4-hole pattern. This means that the steering ratio does not react to every little steering wheel wobble and the car does not quickly get off track at high speeds. Chevy put out some interchange books years ago, they might have them today also, that will give you the part numbers and what they fit. The cars with 16/13:1 ratios turned . then i bolted a wire to the steering coupler. The friction causes metal on metal contact, creating a loud grinding noise . That way you get to confirm the presence (or not)of the variable-assist power steering.You also get to check if its still functional. Steering Ratio - Effect on how fast the front tires turn. NEW 1932-34 Ford 15:1 Steering sector / worm gear set It is my favorite steering box of all the GM boxes if you run large enough front tires to firm up the steering feel. GM began using Saginaw 800 quick-ratio steering boxes as a sport option on Chevelle, Nova and Camaro models in the middle to late Sixties. Mopar gearboxes from 1966-'74 only came in two ratios: The manual steering gearbox was a 24.0:1 ratio with a radius of five and a third turns of the wheel, while the power steering boxes came in 15.7:1 and three and a half turns of the wheel. The Hummer box has a larger internal piston which should provide more steering power. The actual effort it takes to turn the wheel and engage the power assist. If it's there, then your car has variable power steering. This is the correct way to tell. The steering ratio is the ratio of the number of degrees of turn of the steering wheel to the number of degrees the wheel (s) turn as a result. steering stop, spin the wheel in the opposite direction all. Divide one number by the other. It will FIT ALL full size cars that take a model "808" Saginaw steering box (which the Riv. Tried to install my new rare parts pitman arm for my 383-S Barracuda that has a factory fast ratio steering box. The steering wheel travel for one complete rotation =2 x r . BORGESON Power Steering Box Saginaw 700 12.7:1 Ratio P/N - 800130. From my searching Cosworth is 3.0 and regular is 3.6 or 3.8. and the respective mean value determined in each . This is what I have on my 67 Barracuda. Finding Your Axle Ratio Vehicle Codes Method. 1932-36 Ford steering box gasket set Steering Regular Price $ 9.95 excl.VAT. Power steering was 4 turns or maybe 3.8 in 68 and 69 AMX, and 70 was a variable ratio with 3.2 or 3.3 turns lock to lock. This relationship is called the gear teeth - pinion teeth ratio or the gear ratio. Lock to lock turns are now about 2.3 and 2.5 turns on each car. If you get it wrong it'll be obvious the first time . Assuming this is true, a quicker-ratio manual box or r&p may be created by disabling the power steering system. The PS included a power cylinder (aka ram) attached to the steering linkage. Rear End Links. . The gearing can vary so you have to do the lock-to-lock test to identify. Steering Box Type: This is a constant ratio box. Steering ratio is the angle need to turn the steering wheel for one 1 degree turn of the tyres. The steering ratio is actively adjusted in certain car models. The steering wheel decided is AIM Formula steering wheel 2 which has a radius of 130 mm. Directness and responsiveness come at the expense of steering effort. 22.5 -----16.2. It guides the wheels' movement in conjunction with the direction that the steering wheel is rotated, helping achieve ideal steering response for more efficient driving. It was in my 1980 Conquista. Return Port: 16mm X 1.5 Flare (Located Closest to Input shaft). For full application listings and technical information, please visit Borgeson. Suspension and Steering News . Part of this package was a quicker ratio steering box to reduce steering wheel movement when turning. Audi will include its high-tech dynamic steering on request in some model lines. The splined hole is bigger than the original pitman arm. the way to that steering stop, counting the complete turns. November 29, 2021. So in this example, since there are 54 teeth on the larger gear and 18 teeth on the pinion. Dec 17, 2007. This gives the gear ratio. Technical specs on the Cardone 27-7595-. Calculate Shipping Ask a Question. I added one to my '66 Galaxie and it was one of the best upgrades I did. Fast ration 16:1 was an option from 65-69, but it's very rare, and I particularly doubt it was supplied on big block cars, as it would make the steering effort enormous. Remove all of these using needle nose pliers and side cutters where needed. It doesn't fit! In the 1960's , GM used, almost exclusively, a 20:1 ratio power steering gear in most of their cars. Place a degree wheel on the output shaft and turn the input shaft exactly one turn. Had to take it out since I couldn't steer the car at low speeds. Pitman Shaft: 1-1/4" Mopar with 32 Splines and 4 Master Splines, 7/8"-14 Thread. The output shaft and frame bolts on old and new are identical and the steering box looks the same externally. 16:1 ratio. Local Time: 6:40 PM. 2. Discussions . If someone quotes you a stock power box for a 62-67 Nova then it is likely you will not get the correct box. The only identifier was an inked on 2 letter code on the aluminum end cap, and it is usually long gone, washed or worn away. Remove the old components. This direct bolt-on, remanufactured power steering box replacement has a quick ratio 2-3/4"three turns lock-to-lock. Gear Box, Power Steering, 1980-88 G-Body. Point the wheels straight ahead used board to mark line on floor, turn wheel one complete turn ( 360* ) make another mark on floor, then measure the angle of the lines on the floor and divide. With the variable ratio, it drives nicer at high speed than the fixed ratio boxes, and yet it turns faster at . The are however some differences in modern and old boxes. For safety, every nut in the system has a cotter pin. . B-3581-ST. Quick View; View Details. 20:1 is a good ratio for a B body car. For safety, every nut in the system has a cotter pin. You've either got to know where it came from stock, as in pulled it off yourself, or take the word of the guy selling it.. HotRodRick Save Reply HotRodRick Registered Dec 17, 2007. To determine the spline size of a component (rack and pinion, steering column, and steering box), measure the outside diameter and count the number of splines. . Those that came with 20:1 ratios, turn a full 4 to 4.25 turns lock to lock. 1. Location: Menlo Park, CA. Shocks. It came in both a 3-hole "L" and 4-hole "H" mounting pattern. In motorcycles, delta tricycles and bicycles, the steering ratio is always 1:1, because the steering wheel is fixed to the front wheel. Also, take a look at some of our top rated Mechanical Engineering Courses:**. A higher steering ratio means that you have to turn the steering wheel more, to get the wheels turning, but it will be easier to turn the steering wheel. Location: Menlo Park, CA. The second number you posted looks like a chevy part number. Your box sounds like the original 1970 power steering box.